Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - You, The Viewer
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TitanXL
Posts: 4036 |
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Are you honestly suggesting merchandise like figures and games somehow relates to the problem with superhero comics? Just because, say, the latest Naruto game will be a Generations type thing that bridges past and future characters together into one time line, doesn't mean that has any detrimental effects or somehow messes the actual manga's storyline... it's a video game, a separate thing, let alone a fighting game where the whole purpose is just picking a character you like and fighting stuff. To even suggest it's relatable like that is ludicrous. I don't think Arkham Asylum is a contributing factor onto why most people don't pick up the Batman comic every month (or at least I surely hope not, that'd be silly of them), I'm pretty sure it's entirely because it's 60+ years of clusterbomb continuity from cross overs with other titles to mini series to company-wide "nothing will ever be the same" events.
Not at all, after all my first post's very first words were "superhero comics". It's just some people either skipped over that or they attempted to twist my words to do as such, which is why I ignored quite a few posts since they couldn't even be bothered to read the first sentence and went for a knee-jerk reaction instead; reading comprehension seems to be very lacking in this day and age, I'm afraid. My criticisms were quite clearly directed entirely towards the superhero glut. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Sure. This is a list I threw together the last time one of these debates broke out. It was originally in reference to specific anime a poster liked but it still fully applies. If you like a blend of action, drama and supernatural, specifically with a focus on mythological figures who secretly exist in the modern world: -Fables (Fantasy/Drama/Action) If you like all that but don't care about it being modern day: -The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (Action/Drama/Historical/Fantasy) If you like mystery especially with elements of the supernatural: -From Hell (Mystery/Historical/Supernatural) -Locke & Key (Mystery/Supernatural) -Morning Glories (Mystery/Drama) -House of Mystery (Mystery) -Unwritten (Adventure/Mystery/Supernatural) If you like detectives specifically: -Chew (Mystery/Supernatural/Detectives) If you like dark, violent action comics then try the following: -Sin City (Action) -300 (Action) -Ronin (Action) -The Losers (Action) -100 Bullets (Action) If you like horror and supernatural elements then try: -Hellblazer (Horror/Supernatural) -Sandman (Supernatural) -Preacher (Supernatural/Satire) -Solomon Kane (Supernatural) Or for a balance of both action and horror: -The Walking Dead (Action/Drama/Horror) -Hellboy (Action/Supernatural/Fantasy) If you're looking for something along the lines of a true historical sword fighting story: -Northlanders (Action/Historical) -Wolfskin (Action/Historical) -Crecy (Action/Historical/Satire) What about more down to earth Action/Thrillers? If so: -Queen & Country (Action/Thriller/Spies) -Whiteout (Action/Thriller) -Fire (Thriller/Spies) How about crime dramas? If so: -Criminal (Crime/Drama) -Road to Perdition (Crime/Drama) -Goldfish (Crime/Drama) Westerns? -Loveless (Western) -American Vampire (Western/Supernatural) -Scalped (Western/Crime) Historical Drama? -Maus (Drama/Historical) Serious SciFi or Political: -Y The Last Man (SciFi/Adventure/Drama) -Transmetropolitan (SciFi/Political) -V for Vendetta (SciFi/Thriller/Political) -DMZ (Action/Thriller/Political) A couple other random recommendations that I'm not sure how to classify: Four Eyes (Dragon fighting) Proof (Crypto-zoology) Umbrella Academy (Action/Drama/Supernatural) The Fountain (Drama/Scifi/Supernatural) The Goon (Action/Pulp/Humour) Also, if you're open to superheroes but just want something finite and self contained I absolutely recommend that you check out some of these: -Watchmen (Political/Superheroes) -Ex Machina (SciFi/Political/Superheroes) -Top Ten (Police/Superheroes) -Powers (Police Procedural/Superheroes) I'd be willing to go into more detail if there's something specific that peaks your interest. Honestly though, there's so much out there that I don't see much point in going in depth right away.
Let's cut the shit here man. Yeah, you specifically said "this is the problem with superheroes" but regardless, you do] basically dismiss all western comics do you not? (And animation and so forth). You've said as much many many times in the past. I think it's a little late to play the "I'm just criticizing superheroes" card. |
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enurtsol
Posts: 14794 |
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Amusingly, more people in the world still watch the live-action movies with their own crossover continuities even if they don't follow the comics. They are at least following the mythos.
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KENZICHI
Posts: 1111 |
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If you say it like that then Chobits is a sequal not a crossover. |
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RestLessone
Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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People have already listed off some awesome comics, but here are some more: Beasts of Burden - Revolves around a group of dogs and a cat. Crazy, intriguing, and sometimes sad. Also note that, despite its characters, it is by no means kiddie fare. It can be quite gruesome. It doesn't have an ending yet, but it is ongoing, and a few new issues were released just recently. Johnny the Homicidal Maniac - Do you like Invader Zim? Dark humor? Insanity? Then try it out! Before he did IZ, Jhonen Vasquez was responsible for this comic as well as a few others. Squee's Wonderful Big Giant Book of Unspeakable Horrors is a sort of companion piece to it. Johnny ends on a somewhat strange note, but what needed to be told was told, I suppose. And he does show up later in Squee... Lackadaisy - Okay, okay, I haven't read more than a few strips yet. I'm planning on buying it eventually. Still ongoing from what I know. The art is attractive and it stars bootlegging anthro cats during Prohibition! Unfortunately, almost all the American comics I have here at the dorms are superhero comics, so I can't think of more that haven't been said. If you haven't already, I'd suggest at least giving superhero comics a try. Personally, I didn't find them impenetrable at all, and the writing can be phenomenal. In the link to horrible retcons, a specific scene from Identity Crisis was cited. Despite this change, I still found the book good; the emotion, the art, and the subplots all sucked me in. So, maybe it's a good start...I don't believe it required that much prior knowledge, and it goes over the basics well enough. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18223 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I have gotten complaints about this seeming need to soapbox on Western comics vs. manga at every opportunity, so I am laying this directive out now:
DROP. THE. ISSUE. And yes, this is specifically directed at you, TitanXL, because you're the biggest offender. If you aren't getting the clue, some forumites are very tired of your ongoing rants about this topic, and frankly, I am, too. You're getting as bad as a certain other person who's notorious around here for always insisting that American movies are rip-offs of anime/manga, and that person is permanently Moderated partly because of that. Do you want to seek that same status, too? Continue arguments on that issue here, or hijack other threads only peripherally related to the topic to continue your claims, and that's what will happen. And BTW, as someone who's read American superhero comics for vastly longer, and vastly more expansively, than you have, I can attest from extensive personal experience that the faults you cite for super-hero comics almost without exception either have parallels in manga or are offset by other consistent flaws that manga have. The only valid point you had was about Rob Liefield, whose artistic style I've hated from the moment he first popped up on the scenes, but as others have said, manga has its equivalents, too. Now, the issue is done here. Any post further about the topic which does not deal specifically with something in the column risks getting removed by me. Oh, and let's also be careful about listing, people. Some of you are now doing that. |
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bj_waters
Posts: 234 |
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I'm going to assume that this is directed at my statement posted in the column. If not, then my apologies for being so assuming. While I could argue that the chapters printed in the US Shonen Jump aren't collected into graphic novels at the time of printing, getting the latest chapters of the big names isn't the reason why I like SJ. If that were the reason, I would resort to scanlations. What I am is a big fan of the IDEA of serialized manga. I subscribed to Yes Plus when it was in print, picked up a couple of those Gen Manga in print, and even dug up some old Raijin Comics magazines. (I didn't go so far as Shojo Beat, partially because I wasn't interested in the titles, partially because I was outside the demographic, and partially because they ended up doing the pink-and-blue ink thing that I've never understood.) My point is that I already had a subscription simply because I like printed, serialized manga when Psyren seemed to come out of nowhere and when it did arrive in US SJ, there weren't any (US) graphic novels to buy or request from my library. So it isn't about having "lousy options," it's about being surprised that a new series was added and that it was actually GOOD (instead of just Yu-Gi-Oh! on motorcycles). I knew nothing about Psyren until it showed up in US Shonen Jump, mostly because I don't really follow the latest of Weekly Shonen Jump. |
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Crisha
Moderator
Posts: 4290 |
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Thank you Princess_Irene, ikillchicken, and RestlessOne for the recommendations! I'll definitely look them up!
Oh, I'm not adverse to superhero comics at all. I've read some Teen Titans and Runaways and a few others. I just prefer self-contained series that don't retcon/reboot/etc. Another thing that can frustrate me is when an ongoing series switches writers/artists. Now, it can be interesting by bringing a fresh perspective to the table, but this fresh perspective often brings new frustrations by changing characters and relationships from the way I was enjoying them. So I'm normally a little leary of such situations. But go ahead and recommend me some series. Or parts of long series. I'm a fan of X-men, for example, but I've only picked through certain arcs that intrigue me. |
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YotaruVegeta
Posts: 1061 Location: New York |
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Why is it an either/or deal when it comes to being an artist/writer/animator enthusiast? Do you have to go with manga/anime or American comics/animation.
Why don't you just do your own thing that's somewhere in-between? Write your stuff and maybe put it up as a webcomic or see if some American indie publisher will take your stuff. Maybe it's just "kids" asking these questions about getting into the anime/manga industry, but for everyone above high school age, I think that getting an audience is what should be thought of, over who publishes your stuff. |
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Mike Hazama
Posts: 45 |
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In that case manga, since more people in the world read manga than they do comics. That's probably why. Comics don't have as big of a fanbase. |
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YotaruVegeta
Posts: 1061 Location: New York |
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No, what I mean is getting an audience at all, rather than puzzling over what route you should take. As Americans, we have miniscule to no shot touching any of that audience, so if you're a nobody creator with a dream and some ideas, then you should approach your future with a bit of realism.
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Hypeathon
Posts: 1176 |
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@ YotaruVegeta:
I...... think in terms of simply getting an auidence, pitching a comic to a publisher or pitching a script to a TV network or animation studio (it might be to a network) can be more of a hurdle to do but one probably can more likely guarantee that there will be an established audience. Maybe not an established audience for that individual's work specifically, but the fact there are already people subscribed to seeing whatever a publisher or TV network releases helps. With self-publishing or just releasing your own animated story, it's easier to get your work out there without little approval from executives. But if you're hoping to make a profit, then figuring that out would be more difficult. And the profit would reflect on the size of audience, which would be another hurdle if that's what you're concerned with. Although it's not impposible. I've been listening to the Paperwings Podcast featuring 2 hosts who at one point been giving pretty good advice on people who are self-publishing based on parts 1 and part 2 of How to make money from your comic. They even have a blog post about choosing print-on-demand publishers. They're also helpful with creative advice for aspiring artists and how to hone their art for making an original story and characterizations and artists mental state with doing creative work. Not only that, but the hosts are nice guys. One of the co-hosts, Lora Innes does this webcomic called The Dreamer which is about a teenage girl who ends up in some part of the Revolutionary War whenever she dreams in her sleep and falls in love with a soldier of the 13 British colonies I think (I'm not too vivid on history in general, but Lora is. Hence why she makes the comic). And then there's the other co-host, Chris Oatley who also makes his own comic called Greg the Megabeaver's Prehistoric Sideshow. He works as a character designer for Disney and did the designs for the movie Planes and The Disney Fairies films. |
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Tamaria
Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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Huh? You do realise that there are more countries out there with a comic industry than just Japan and America, right?
Normally, it's the publisher that takes charges of finding an audience. That's mostly marketing. Authors shouldn't worry about that and write/draw what they feel works. Of course, the situation is different when you're hired by a publisher to work on a project, but that usually only happens to people who've already got some of their own stuff out there. If you want to be noticed, you need to do what Brian said and find your own style and voice first. As for selfpublishing, yes, it can be a good start. But even then, don't worry too much about finding an audience while writing/drawing. If you want to worry about something, worry about making it easy for an audience to find you. Having a webcomic is a great start, getting to know other artists can be a huge hulp as well. |
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YotaruVegeta
Posts: 1061 Location: New York |
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Self Publishing is like an internship. You may not get a job out of it immediately following, you may not make any money off of it, but you have experience and you have something to show future employers. You might also gather a loyal fanbase along the way.
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Hypeathon
Posts: 1176 |
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With self-publishing your own work, it's really more of a friendly, tight, community than just a loyal fanbase. Yeah, they're avidly viewing your work, but they are also probably artists getting their own stories self-published and are exchanging advice with you. |
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