Forum - View topicShelf Life - Breakfast of Champions
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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Zac, I know we've had this discussion at least once before. Both of us are reasonable people, so let's avoid strawman comparisons here. I'm not saying it's unprofessional because she has a difference of opinion that runs contrary to many of the posters in the thread. I'm saying it's unprofessional because it is a deliberate attempt to shut down a certain kind of conversation, in the most unsubtle--something that Erin herself railed against--way possible. I've read many negative reviews on this site, and have only felt necessary to respond to a handful of them. This is one of the ones I felt crossed that thin line between "strong opinion" and "outright baiting".
That's exactly my point. If the people that come and give their opinions on what she says are going to be chastised for it, then why allow comments in the first place? I assume that this site wants to see the reader reactions to the articles it publishes. Considering that the Casshern Sins fans have been overall polite and literate in their defense of the series, I don't understand why you would allow an article to be posted with a first line that unprofessional. It's unprofessional because, well, what can be said in response to it? The reviewer is outright saying, "don't even talk to me about Casshern Sins, because you're not going to change my mind." Why should I read her review, then? She's told me everything I need to know in the opening line, and furthermore, dismisses any attempt in opening a conversation about it with her. Obviously, as fellow human beings, I'm sure the Casshern Sins fanbase understands that Erin is a human being with tastes that might be different from their own. Erin is not a bad person or unprofessional because she dislikes Casshern in and of itself, she behaved in an unprofessional way this one time because of the way she wrote her review.
The fact that you think the only way I could have an issue with Erin's review is because I'm a diehard fan of the series is illuminating, but inaccurate. I didn't even finish Casshern Sins. There were elements I liked and elements I didn't like. I'll probably give the series another chance at some point, but I'm more than open to a negative review about the series. I think everyone should take their knocks like adults when it comes to their opinions, especially ones they feel strongly on. This sometimes means being challenged, and this sometimes means being unfairly villified, but if your opinion is so strong that you have to open a review with "I hate this series", then I think you need to stand behind that and accept that people are going to want to challenge you on it, instead of immediately hiding behind "and almost nothing you could say could change my mind" dismissively. |
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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What the hell is wrong with you? I mean does it make you feel smarter that you like Casshern Sins? Do you think that because you like it your somehow better than Erin? Here's the thing that really gets me. You are attacking Erin and not what she said. When people attack Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, or G Gundam, I don't say "Your an idiot for not liking what I like so your wrong", I tell them that I disagree and see what they have to say. What did Erin say that was wrong? You just say she's wrong and then trash a different series that she likes just to make yourself look superior to her. Your not superior to her, Erin is one of the few reviewers who even posts in this forum anymore. I own GaoGaiGar hell of a show, if Erin likes the first half then she's going to love the second half as the series makes better use of the rest of the robots. It's good to see masterpieces like GaoGaiGar get rewarded by being hailed as the genius work they are. On the other hand I have never really thought about Casshern Sins simply because it looks like the whole "depressing things are deep" that infect a lot of shows. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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What? I'm not "defending" Erin's views - her opinion is her opinion, whether I agree with it or not - but I am pushing back against the sheer amount of whining and crying in here about it. It's ridiculous. Don't talk to me about "editorial balance" when you're throwing around words like "masterpiece" and suggesting that because someone didn't like a show as much as you did, they oh-so-clearly know nothing at all about anything.
Welp, I give up! Here's a bunny, I'm going to go take a nap. 
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist
 Posts: 598 |
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PBR Tastes like water. You are buying cans of carbonated water.
I do try and avoid spoilers as much as possible. Tell me which part specifically you thought was a spoiler and I'll edit it.
I did give some serious thought to that. (Is this what TC-man is talking about?) I think, from all the talk in Part 1, anyone could guess that Luna was going to show up sooner or later. If Luna showed up at the end of Part 2, or even in the second half, I would keep it a secret. But she appears in the first episode of part two. I felt it would be difficult not to mention her.
Touche!
Agreed! For many years I wanted to produce a fan parody of Steamboy, which I felt could be greatly improved with new characterizations and a swift edit.
Yikes! Adding to edit list...
Hooray! That's why I wanted to review it! I noticed there were no review links in the database. Although honestly since it came out in 2008 it was controversial to include in Shelf Life. I just really wanted to balance a review as negative as Casshern Sins with something positive.
Perhaps you missed my review of Part 1, where I dumped on the animation quality.
I especially hated the backgrounds (see link above). After a lot of thought, I believe the backgrounds in Part 1 gave me Seasonal Affective Disorder, which I don't normally suffer from. No, I was not watching the blu-ray.
 I don't usually read Theron's reviews, because I don't want them to influence mine. I don't want my reviews to be just a reaction to someone else's review. This is something that was talked about on a recent ANN Cast, it was really interesting.
Casshern just needs a different report card. Like: Pretension: A+ Blur Effect Use: A Repetitiveness: A+ Use of the Color Gray: A+ Logic: D-
I love Kaiba, too bad it's not available legally.
I didn't really have time to go into a meta-discussion at great length within the column, but in general I'm of the opinion that it is extremely difficult to change anyone's mind about anything. Religion and politics top the list of topics people have strong opinions on based on a gut feelings (or whatever), and it's really hard to change their minds. I feel very strongly about Casshern Sins based on a gut feeling, so I knew it would be hard to dissuade me. If I was on the fence about the show, some convincing would be more effective. I have seen friends come around to other friends' points of view in real life, but in generally takes years of patience, understanding, trust, cajoling, and book-loaning to make someone change their position. It's a slow process. You know what doesn't work? Trying to turn around someone's opinion in an internet forum. I love Evangelion, for example, but I can't think of a bigger waste of my time than to try and convince a reviewer who hated it that it was actually good and that he/she had ought to like it. One is much better off addressing the rest of the forum than addressing me. Such as: "It's too bad Erin didn't like this show. I thought it was great because of [specific examples]." Some people have done this here. Good job! With my opening line, I was hoping to stem the tide of nay-sayers trying to "convince" me that I'm "wrong" about Casshern Sins, but I sort of did the opposite. I came off too negatively. Regardless, I'm not going to apologize for not liking something. (I think I tried that once and forumites I like lost respect for me.)
Oh, I don't wield that mighty power. That is up to the editors. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23786 |
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Man, what I wouldn't give to be able to say honestly that I have never heard of Love Hina. Hell, I'd settle for being able to say honestly that I didn't spend any money buying this steaming turd of... of... turdiness. |
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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I completely agree with this stance and would never suggest you apologize for disliking Casshern Sins. It's always better to be criticized for the opinions you hold, as opposed losing everyone's respect for apologizing for them. My biggest issue with the review, is, again, that first line. People are always going to try to change the opinion of someone they see as an "authority" that disagrees with something they like. Posting an opening line like that makes you into a challenge. It's much better to start out saying "I know this is a polarizing series. I personally can't stand it, but I'm sure if you look at the comments for this and the last thread you'll see several spirited defenses of the series's merits." I think that would encourage people to both accept your review for what it is, and write about their own experiences with the series, as was your goal. It allows both your opinion and the opinion of those that love the show to be valid at the same time. I understand there was certainly a measure of frustration in regards to the last thread that made you write the review the way you did. But I think that sort of thing comes with the territory of being a reviewer on a high profile news site, writing about something you have a strong opinion on. |
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BeanBandit
Posts: 303 Location: Canada |
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I would be interested in Erin elaborating more on why, as an adult, she would recommend GGG and consider it a stand out show? (especially compared to other kid friendly giant super-robot shows). I just put this forth because as an anime fan in his late 20's who recently tried watching GGG, I found it impossible to sit through a single episode of it. Personally I found my experience watching it was like going back and trying to re-watch an old American 80's cartoon like GI Joe or Thundercats. I could see how it could appeal to kids but was left wondering how a show like this could appeal to an adult (and have such a huge adult fanbase). Shows like Gurren Lagann (which I don't like either) I can understand how it can and does appeal to an older anime fan, but GGG is so obviously targeted towards a kid audience (8-12 year old male's specifically) that I am left wondering why it's so popular among older anime fans?
Anyway just curious if Erin herself or anybody else had any thoughts on this as I know a lot of people my age who absolutely love this show and have always been curious as to what is it about GGG specifically that hit's a chord with them? Especially since a lot of the GGG fans I know will love this yet tear apart other kids shows as being "dumb". BTW Just so were clear I'm asking this as a serious question not as some sort of flame-bait. To which I would also have add that I personally think Erin does a great job writing Shelf Life, why I keep reading accusations of bias and "unprofessionalism" I don't know. |
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fightbait
 Posts: 35 Location: Blaine, MN |
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Casshern Sins was a boring cartoon. The simple fact and bottom line that you think it's an anime masterpiece clearly shows that you have no clue what a truly great, carefully crafted, artistic Japanese animation is. |
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garfield15
 Posts: 1517 |
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Or maybe, people just have different tastes on what they think is good or not. I like GGG and Casshern was just okay, though I thought it looked good. Does that mean I have no clue what is "truly great" in the anime world? |
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fightbait
Posts: 35 Location: Blaine, MN |
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Considering that you said you thought it was "just okay" and my statement was directed at hitoyou calling it a masterpiece--specifically their overly pretentious way of saying so--no, my post says nothing of your ability to gauge the true greatness of anime.
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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Much like the earlier G Gundam, Gaogaigar is and isn't a kid's show, while kids can certainly enjoy both sides and the Directors clearly wrote it so that it can be enjoyed by children, it also was attempting to remind people of the earlier super robot shows like Mazinger Z. In particular GaoGaiGar was an attack at Evangelion, while Evangelion presented a world where the adults where always planning something, and where distant, no one in GaoGaiGar ever betrays anyone, if their an enemy of GGG than it's simply because they have a different opinion. While Evangelion was always about Shinji trying to summon the courage to fight, the G stones, and J Jewel are powered by the courage of the user. It tried to show that Super robot shows where meant to be entertaining above all else, and should be about badasses fighting against the forces of evil. Last edited by Charred Knight on Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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YotaruVegeta
 Posts: 1061 Location: New York |
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Hitoyou, cartoon is not a derogatory word. We Americans use it whether we're talking about the best animated series of all time, or, as Erin judges it, Casshern Sins.
Weeaboo, however, is a derogatory word.
Last edited by YotaruVegeta on Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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garfield15
Posts: 1517 |
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Errrr, I wouldn't go that far. Your second paragraph is probably definitely a main driving point for the show. Everybody and their mom who saw it calls it "the Evangelion breaker," buuuut, it's definitely a kids show. Don't get me wrong, I love GGG to death but it was pretty merchandise-driven even if it did have a great plot and fantastic voice acting. Every episode featured the new weapon or toy used that week at the ending and when you have mecha combine in a light-hearted heroic setting and a child protagonist in said setting, you're looking at a kids show. |
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midnightshinigami
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This sentence makes me laugh so much. Since when is the word cartoon derogatory? After all it's just another word for animation...which is what Casshern is; an animation. |
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Mr Adventure
 Posts: 1598 |
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Indeed the idea that the word 'cartoon' is in some way derogatory due to the connotation with American animation is just ridiculous. There is some merit that cartoon = American/Euro animation and Anime = Japan animation in terms of easily catagoring things. But the idea that cartoon is a negatively loaded term is just laughable hyperbole.
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