Forum - View topicYour thoughts on "American" anime?
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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No, a poorly-done fight scene with speedlines instead of animation is going to have the opposite effect. Even if characters are running and leaping and punching, it's going to look like major crap because the bad animation is just going to be super obvious. The more complex a movement is supposed to be the worse it's going to look when the movement is done in poor animation. As Hyouka showed, characters sitting around a table can be visually impressive if the animation and storyboarding are done well. Whereas I've seen numerous Anime fight scenes where the lack of animation made them look retarded. |
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SwerveCity
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I think he meant if you cherry pick the best of anime and then compare it to a regular scene from a cartoon its pretty biased. Which is all that guy did. Not to mention the initial guys argument about smoothness was pretty stupid once you go beyond his confident demeanour. If it was easy to make stuff look fluid, all animation would be fluid. It doesn't really matter that all it is more fps because you still need to make more pictures if you are going to have more fps(and if you don't it literally has no effect). |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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And there are plenty of those in anime. There are some nicer ones too but ultimately, this is clear cherry picking. He's picking a couple really nice examples that suit his purpose and don't represent a universal trend.
Fair enough, but that sort of proves my point. If you choose a scene with somebody just sitting there and not performing any sort of complex movements it really doesn't give the animation a chance to be noticeable one way or another. It's not going to impress anyone next to some flashy fight scene with even competent animation.
Visually impressive? Sure. But in a static way that isn't really related to animation. |
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Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
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Also, a lot of people here have this belief that a show is shit if it has an "odd" or not "soulless and polished to death" artstyle.
Personally, I like "odd" artstyles in animation and would like to see more of them in anime (even if it's something like Madoka's witch labyrinths, I loved those, gave me such an El Shaddai feel). Also, I don't mind if a style is "ugly" as long as it services the show. Sometimes it's charming. The ridiculous overuse of Flash nowawdays annoys the hell out of me though. |
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KyuuA4
 Posts: 1361 Location: America, where anime and manga can be made |
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Now, for the most important question on this thread: spoiler[Which if these 4 would you most likely choose as a WAIFU?]  
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Chagen46
Posts: 4377 |
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Yellow is best girl and I will fight you to the goddamn death to prove it
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KyuuA4
Posts: 1361 Location: America, where anime and manga can be made |
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You don't consider her as an anime character. You're disqualified.  But to be fair...
spoiler[I have chosen White] Although, Yellow is very very very....niiiiiiice,
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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This forum generally hates shounen and moe so I'm not sure if posting stuff like Naruto and Hyouka are considered 'the best of anime'. I'm sure most people here would consider them 'the worst of anime'. People are already turning on Titan and saying it's becoming 'just a generic shounen' like they did Sword Art Online. I'm curious how any of these represent the 'best of anime'. Though given the sheer amount of anime that comes out each year compared to how little domestic animation comes out, it's hard not the "cherry pick". You'll only have like 4 examples of cartoons to use and out of 110 anime this year, you'd need to showcase 56 show for it to be considered the 'majority of anime', which I don't think anyone has time to do.
So the stuff Disney abandoned a long time ago in favor of CG? Well, that's a little bit telling, don't you think? Also, I like how using movies and comparing it to TV shows isn't 'cherry picking' in your eyes. |
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Riddley
 Posts: 536 Location: Ireland |
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I choose...Black and White. Yeah, I said it...harem-style baby. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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^
Black is totally a dominatrix; are you sure you still want her? Or does that just turn you on even more? |
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Guile
Posts: 595 |
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I do not think that is bias you are seeing. I think it's the realization of what animation truly is at it's core it becomes more and more apparent of just how flawed a lot of American animation is when you look past the simple measure of smoothness. 
Oh there's a few anime I would say falls into Adventure Time's category of looking like children's scribbles, but I think it's a bit unfair to mention those without mentioning their strength. Crayon Shin-chan is a very popular show, but if you've watched it as long as I have, you notice just how much it has changed and evolved over the years. The art designs and the animation have changed so much since it first started. The beginning episodes look nothing like they do now. The art has become more defined, the animation has improved, and overall the show has become much more bright and lovable. To see the opposite, I will point to the Simpsons, or as the folks over at Cartoon Brew call it now, The Stiffsons 
The Simpsons ever since entering the HD era has gotten much less refined and devolved compared to it's previous episodes. Even if it's technically smoother than it was before, it sacrificed it's complex animation for it. It is quite a shame, and something you notice about all of Fox's animated adult sitcoms. Family Guy is also very bad at this. Sadly I did not make the gif, otherwise I'd have made a reverse which shows how much Shin-chan has improved over the years.
I beg your pardon but I believe I addressed your claim about smoothness and how cartoons trump anime in it, in your own words. I'm merely pointing out smoothness is not all that animation is, and is often a hang up non-animation enthusiasts fall into when describing a piece of animated work. Animation is more than just how many frames are in a second of production. |
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SwerveCity
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Oh come on trolls are trolls. I'm not even sure if you know what shounen actually means. I'm pretty sure the majority of the people on this board love Death Note, FMA, FMP, Kenji, Beck, Baccano(yeah this is shounen) and Neon Genesis Evangelion. And Hyouka is hardly a moe show, though I'm of the opinion "moe" as a genre doesn't really exist and is just a term used for anything that doesn't recycle Cowboy Bebop. And there are such things as anime moves. If I was to be really biased, I would compare The Lion King to Unlimited Blade Works and say one came out in the 90s the other 2010 and yet the Lion King stomps UBW in animation and art(well it beats anything anime has actually ever done but yeah). I'm sitting here completely perplexed, I've already stated that I prefer how anime focus on art and a few high quality pieces of animation but the idea that anime is better animated is silly.
I never said smoothness was the only factor, I said it was one of many. You failed to read my post or perhaps it would be better to say, you wanted to rant, saw someone mention smoothness and then ignored everything else in the post. Yes, animation is more than just the fps but saying fps isn't involved in good animation, or that the same piece of animation with more fps wouldn't take more time, money and be better animated is wrong. And no, you didn't prove that anime was better animated. You proved that a few high budget segments are better animated than a normal scene. I'd like you to watch the average anime and see how much stuff isn't animated, how mouths flap or even better you just watch a still image of the distance while people talk in the background. How only one body part will move and the rest of the scene will be still. How much stuff is just panning shots and doesn't involve any animation at all. Cartoons are generally animated all the time, there is very little time that isn't animated. Generally, I'm happy with the trade off anime made of high budget scenes and beautiful art over animating everything with a simplistic art style. But to lay the claim that anime is better animated or smoother(which you also claimed with your high budget scenes) is wrong. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Honestly, this whole discussion about art style could basically be summarized as "This doesn't look exactly like the typical anime style to which I'm accustomed and therefore it sucks". It's the same reason stuff in anime like Flowers of Evil gets dumped on by a lot of fans. Anime fans are just really closed minded, especially with regards to art style. It really makes me shake my head. At least some of the criticisms people bring up are based in truth even if they're exaggerated to an absurd degree. But this one basically takes what is a strength of western animation, more diversity in design, and turns it into negative.
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1775 Location: South America |
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I though Paperman was quite decent. Exceptional? A bit too simplistic for me. Some really good recent US animation for me were DON HERTZFELDT's short films, such as: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IUX0Qy-IDM Though the quality of the animation is very low, but overall, it appears to be quite artistically accomplished. Though, visually, US animation has nothing that compares well to anime. In anime we have a certain sense of beauty in the compositions and painted backgrounds that I cannot find in US animation. Yuri Nortein's work is also artistically accomplished on a visual level but it's not very attractive (the characters don't look very good). |
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Looneygamemaster
 Posts: 192 |
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Then you haven't looked very hard. 
See, I could turn that around and say that I've found very little in anime to compare to the marvelously expressive animation used in western animation. We could literally go on for eternity pointing out what one does better than the other. |
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