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Forum - View topicNEWS: CNet Discusses Fansubs
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Isaaru
 Posts: 375 Location: the oppressed colonies in outer space |
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just wait till Naruto gets liscensed. That will answer everything about the effect of fansubs on the retail US market. If even a portion of the zillions of downloaders support the future release (instead of looking for excuses), then its all good.
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Utils
 Posts: 14 |
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I have to agree. Naruto would make a great litmus test. How has One Piece been doing? Also, the article wasn't very interesting. Only the last page had any value. :/ |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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In the interest of posting where it makes the most sense, I'm condensing my comments from the Anime thread and bringing them over here.
Considering they talk about those who already saw it not buying the DVD's, it makes me wonder how well the titles that show on cartoon network sell. Obviously exposure should lead to increased sales, and I suspect those do not sell well are not a problem because of exposure because of fansubs, but lack of quality. When ADV stops forcing titles like Sister Princess and Happy Lesson as being some great stuff to buy and focus on higher quality series, I'm sure sales will do a bit better. I'm tired of the presented views given that somehow previewing it via a fansub is somehow drastically different than watching something on cartoon network. In otherwords, I think there is too much blame put onto the fansubbing and I'm tired of it being presented as the poster child for all that's wrong in the world. I believe that the industry is making it out to being a bigger problem than it actually is. While there is a problem, I think there are too many other factors that are overlooked. I do agree that there are people who choose to keep the fansubs instead of buying, but I still question how many of them would have bought the titles to begin with - or maybe they would have bought the first DVD and then sold it off after realizing they bought crap - even so, I highly doubt that it would cause a significant increase in sales. What I'd really like to see is a highly revered series that wasn't fansubbed that sold better than a series that was highly subbed that was equally popular. There is another thing that isn't addressed. I see that the market is starting to oversaturate and therefore there is some difficulty for consumers deciding what titles to buy and which ones to avoid, therefore they hedge their bets on the popular series. It's no wonder that some of the other titles don't do so well. |
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ThePhatBishounen
 Posts: 26 Location: OSM Central |
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Well on TV One Piece hasn't been doing all that hot. I would like to see what happens though if they ever release uncut DVDs. |
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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What the article is saying is this:
Anime used to sell well overall, for grade "A" and grade "B" anime. A outsold B, but both A and B were typically in line with expectations. Since the 90s, sales figures have changed, and now although "A" continues to sell well, "B" titles have hit a massive downturn in recent years. BT might be hurting the industry overall, but it may not be the only factor at work. Consider the possibility that, in the 90s, there were sometimes only 4-5 different titles (with one "A", and several "B"s) being released in a single month, and so fans would buy them all while waiting for the next "A" volume to be released -- there was limited selection, and little advertising other than word-of-mouth, so no one really knew what was "A" quality and what was "B" quality. Fastforward to today, where there are dozens of titles released in a single month, and a major advertising method (TV broadcasting) focuses heavily on "A" titles. Fans gravitate towards "A" titles and away from "B" titles because of their increased awareness of those "A" titles. Thus, "A" titles continue to grow, and "B" titles stall out and/or shrink in sales. Frankly, though, I'm inclined to believe BT hurts "B" title sales. Heck, I'm inclined to believe BT hurts "A" title sales too, but it would be impossible to collect truthful, accurate and precise data on how people act in these situations. PS: Who gets hurt the most by this trend? It's not the big companies like ADV, Bandai or Geneon -- they already have plenty of grade "A" titles. It's the little folk (with few "A" titles and more "B" titles) who get hit the hardest. Regarding One Piece: *NOTHING* On Fox Box has done well ever since the mid-90s. They're constantly 2nd in ratings to KidsWB with very few exceptions. The question is, would another show (anime, cartoon or live action) do better than One Piece, if OP were to be replaced? |
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Joe Mello
 Posts: 2267 Location: Online Terminal |
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Here comes another 10 pages worth of redundancy. Since people are only going to restate the obvious, I'll bring this up for kicks and giggles.
That's kinda contradictory, don't you think? I mean, if it's a black and white matter, that means it's either legal or it's not. There's nothing "technical" about it. So why say it's almost pregnant when you claim there's no such thing? This kinda resembles the issue in microcosm, don't you think? |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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It's simple - they want to soften the issue. Remember, the companies best interests are to handle this with kid gloves. It makes sense that they will be very selective and diplomatic in how they say things. They don't want to start another mp3 fiasco and look like bullies like the RIAA. On top of all that, if they called it blatantly illegal, it would also indicate that their priority is not to serve the fans, but instead, stopping the fansubbers. It's never a good thing to scare off the people who buy your product. |
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Utils
Posts: 14 |
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Then the solution is simple, license more A titles. Right? |
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Kazuki-san
 Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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It's pretty much what Godai says. It's like speeding. Speeding is technically illegal, but everybody does it unless they see a cop. |
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Nionel
 Posts: 357 Location: Nebraska |
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I don't know about anyone else, but if I watch a show with fansubs, I'm more likely to buy the DVDs when they come out, for example if any of the 3 shows I'm watching fansubbed where licenced anytime in the near future I would be ecstatic (Air TV, Ah! My Goddess TV, Naruto) and I'd buy all the DVDs as they were released, and this has proven true in the past as well, as I've bought both Tenchi Muyo GXP and Gundam Seed 'cause I watched and liked both as fansubs
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arxane
 Posts: 447 |
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Yes, but that's you. The sad fact is that there are a lot of people out there who will download episodes on the web and keep them without buying the series on DVD. I knew someone last year who had the entire series "Noir" burnt onto CDs, even when the series had been completely released. And when I wander into less "moderated" boards, I still see people asking for links to bit torrents for series that are licensed or have been released. And let's not forget a recent article on ANN which talked about someone who was still downloading "Fullmetal Alchemist" even though the show was airing on Adult Swim at that very moment. His reason? "Some companies are notorious for taking entire episodes out" and "Americanization" or something to that effect. There are rarely "one or the other" scenarios in this world, and the anime industry is no different. I'm glad to know there are people who use fansubs correctly and support the industry, but it's the people on the other end of the spectrum that ruin it for everyone else with their selfishness. |
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cyrax777
 Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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Kusanagi_Kei
 Posts: 230 |
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Yeah I agree with that there are the loyal fans and the regular free-riders out there in this world, and it looks like the free-riders are outweighing the nice fans.
But the thing is, I believe that we all are free-riders, we're all cheapskates. Because we're all downloading these fansubs. Yes yes I know, some do download watch and buy the DVD like they would, but the thing is that having downloaded a fansub actually influences them anyway. Yeah, I know that they might say: WOW, I LOVE THIS SERIES, I'M GONNA BUY IT FOR SURE! Some will say that yes, however, even though they have real big intentions of purchasing the DVD, the fact that they have it archived (that is if they did archive it) influences his/her time of purchase and place of purchase. The person will judge and evaluate from all of the fansubs that s/he has downloaded and compare which ones have the highest priority. But wait... Another fansub just came out, and it looks even better than the previous one. What do they do? Well, they hold back on the previous title and rack of the money for the even better title. In due time, the older titles they have watched in the past have been put under lower and lower prioirities and maybe not even worth the purchase: might as well just keep the fansub instead and leave the DVDs. Also, another strong point to make is that even though people have bought the DVDs of their favorite titles, they still may be keeping the fansub on archived DVDs and CDs. Do you think they'll be willing enough and have the guts to discard these discs or delete this data from their hard drives? I don't think so. And what will this lead to? Further distribution, and this time it's distribution even when the title is licensed already. They have a friend online, asking for info on a certain title. The guy says: "Oh you mean that one, yeah I have it on disc, you want it? I can send it to you or do you want me to bring them over, have you watch them and even make a copy, yes? Or perhaps I can give you this old torrent link and you download it, how's that?" Why do they continue like this? Why? Well, straight forward answer, they want to spread the popularity, influence and convert newcomers into anime. And they find the best way to do this by distributing more fansubs and illegal rips. Would they say?: "No sorry I can't give the anime series to you because it's already been licensed although I do have it on disc, and I won't give you the links either, I'm sorry friend." So... Fansubs yes do help raise popularity, but they're just bruising the anime industry layer by layer, ever so slowly. Oh and this... do look at it this way... If people had less access or perhaps no access to fansubs, then there would be more purchasing of anime DVDs, mainly because people are interested in the titles and would have to buy them to get to see them. This would lead to increased sales, thus more revenue to the companies and thus better management and production, cheaper costs, which then benefits the anime fan. But if fansubs were to spread like a drug-plague where everyone has access to them, then everyone would be dependent and very reliant on these fansubs, which would lead to hesitation of purchases and thus a decrease in sales. Thus, this would lead to less revenue for anime firms, lesser management and less production due to less income, and perhaps less releases and higher costs to the anime fan. |
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Stueypark
Posts: 116 |
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One of the oldest fansubs anecdotes goes back to the days of ~VHS~
Everyone knows that the first volume of any series has better sales and sales on following volumes decreases. ADV picked up the rights to Nuku Nuku and released it and were baffled by low sales for the first volume, higher sales for the next volume, and so on. They thought about it and realized people were simply suplementing the official release to the fansubs they already had. Fansubs were hurting their sales. Despite best intentions, it's known that fansubs are taking a toll on the American market, and that digisubs are starting to really hurt the Japanese market. Why should someone in Japan buy a series when all of these thoughtful Americans put it up for download? |
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animaniac
 Posts: 246 Location: Idaho |
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I get subs online through bt all the time. Mostly because the shows are not yet available in the states (negima, ah my goddess) some of these shows never come out here also. When a show is licensed I delete what I have and stop downloading new episodes or old ones and most subbers stop distributing old and new files. I buy and rent dvds regularly.
I agree companies should be careful about this unlike the music and live action movie industries here in the states. I also think a way to help themselves would be to cut prices and of course I also think offering dvds with several region encodings or region free would be a good idea |
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