×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
The King's Avatar


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:01 pm Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
The King's Avatar is by no means a bad show, but I'd agree that it's rough around the edges. Part of this (for me) is because this show just doesn't seem to know how to distribute its time evenly. Like, from the setup in episode one, you can pretty much guess what the overall follow through of the main plot is going to be, but the main character himself, for all the talk of tactics and strategy, doesn't think to spoiler[build up his own team comprised of all the talented newbies] until the very last episode.

My take on this (having completed the season now) is that the ENTIRE first season was intended as "intro. Maybe because they only had budget for the 12 eps to start and wanted to see if it caught on or something. I'm disappointed that the whole thing seems to end right when things SEEM like they're starting to roll. The final episode I feel like has FINALLY really introduced the main cast and gotten them all together. (haven't read the novels, so if there's more character to come... sheesh) But yeah, much like any LN anime, there's CLEARLY a lot more story to tell.

Also, is there something in the novel that I didn't follow? From what I could tell in the show, we STILL haven't really gotten anything about the guy that took over for Ye Xiu and was given his character. The guy that he's clearly antagonized was someone else on his team that chafed under his leadership. (from the dialog, because he didn't want to put in the effort to improve more) The guy that got One Autumn Leaf seemed like a "free agent" that was brought in to pop the team.

I doubt it will be a plot point, but considering some of the dynamics of the eSports scene, I'm curious if any future installments will make note of the fact that Lord Grim's team includes 2 women. I also hope his boss eventually gets to "meet" Mucheng, who she has noted is her #1 player. (even higher than Xui, and his "retirement" made her cry)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Eventine



Joined: 16 Jun 2017
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:47 pm Reply with quote
CrownKlown wrote:
This is not a knock on either manhua or manwha, or their animated counterparts, but they are clearly influenced heavily by anime and manga, much in a similar way a lot of the korean and chinese games are influenced by jrpgs.

A lot of the manhua is actually pretty good, but wuxia is just not that popular now, maybe if a lot of these shows came out around the time of things like dragon ball (Chinese influnced) , sailor moon, and especially Fushigi Yuugi, they probably would have been better received.

King's avatar just happens to follow a trend that is a. currently popular in anime, and b. like the author says is more universal so it has a broader appeal.

I personally don't think King's Avatar is even close to being one of the better shows that has come out of China, but I guess its the most polished and "accessible".

Also its kind of nonsensical not to include entries for manhua/manwha on here, when a. they are derived or based on manga/anime, and b. ANN is always quick to point out they cover non anime related things like gaming. Unless ANN is position itself as Japanese only.


Technology, storytelling, animation technique, art style, voice acting, translation work, etc. are all important aspects to developing a successful industry. But in this time of transition, it is the method of distribution that will play the most critical role in an industry’s success.

Big titles like Attack on Titan and One Piece will reach the audience, no matter what. But an industry is not comprised of a handful of hits; rather it is the sum of its ecosystem. An industry that cannot support a diverse collection of companies and talents, cannot hope to thrive, because of lack of adaptation, on one hand, and lack of new talent, on the other. This is especially the case with animation, which involves a heavy personal sacrifice from industry professionals.

Japanese animation was able to stay at the top of the game through consistently producing a huge variety of works, which reached the rest of the world through DVD sales, licensed network runs, and, like it or not, torrents. Here I speak of not only the handful of highly successful hits, but the thousands of series that Japan’s industry was able to produce over the course of the last few decades.

But the future of digital media is not DVD sales, licensed network runs, or torrents. The future is streaming: simultaneous worldwide releases through platforms that broadcast to a wide variety of devices be they television sets, computers, or mobile tablets and phones. Utilizing advertisement and relatively cheap services instead of direct sales, streaming platforms are cornering the market in places like China and Korea, where much of animation media is consumed. Companies that adapt quickly to this trend are ahead of the game. Japan, however, is behind, due to both the conservative nature of Japanese production and distribution companies, and political barriers preventing them from establishing a huge commercial presence in important markets like China.

There is an enormous opportunity here for companies that are willing and able to tailor their content for streaming, which is fundamentally an interactive platform. We’ve already seen innovations in this area in the form of live interactions between audiences watching the same show. But that’s just the tip of the ice berg. There is so much more that can be done to better involve audiences with the content, and to better connect them with the creators.

My belief is that the country that makes the most of the intersection between streaming digital media, animated content development, and monetization through advertisement, will control the future of the industry. China, with its immense focus on mobile platforms and streaming, is one of the forerunners here. The infrastructure and technology are already there, in many ways; what’s left is for the content producers to rise to the challenge, instead of imitating Japanese models of production.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eventine



Joined: 16 Jun 2017
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:53 pm Reply with quote
reanimator wrote:
I'm not here to totally downplay quality of King's Avatar and it looks pretty good. Still, I don't see China as a trend-setter in terms of visual and story. If Japan comes out something novel due to their unique environment, I have a feeling that China will just copy it and put their own cultural twist.

Visually, it's interesting that character designs resemble BL designs due lankiness of character proportions. I was thinking, "did Uta no Prince/Shonen Hollywood jumped onto VMMORPG bandwagon?"

Joke aside, I'm not into video game genre animation and it seems like China is just catching up with whatever trends that Japanese have set. On that note, maybe China should look at media other than foreign cartoons for inspiration. Anime crators tried recreate what they watched from Holllywood films to animation format and they found their own voice.

As for sementics, I'm hoping a jargon that describes Chinese 2D animation in unique way. "Anime" is already established as Japanese 2D animation in consensus among westerners so I wonder what local Chinese call their homemade 2D animation though...


The irony in this criticism is that Japan didn't invent MMORGs, so in essence the "current trend of Japanese anime" is just Japanese animation studios copying American MMORPG culture - or more precisely, Japanese MMORPG culture which copied American MMORPG culture - and putting their own spin on it. What the author of King's Avatar said is right: MMORPGs are a global culture and just because the Japanese were the first to popularize animations about it doesn't make them the creators of the genre.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure King's Avatar is the first popular animation about professional gaming. So it is just as much of an innovator as Sword Art Online, to place it in context. Not that Sword Art Online is particularly innovative, mind you. All of these shows are just responding to actual youth culture trends that they did not create. The sources of inspiration are outside of animation and consist of Hollywood, popular culture, and life itself.

It's similar to how you can't just call the Korean animation, Seoul Station, a copy of Highschool of the Dead because they're both animated productions about zombies. Zombies aren't a Japanese invention. The zombie trend in television and film was started by Hollywood and spread to both countries, who then produced their own versions of the genre. It's not Japanese; it's international.

Also, it's not that Chinese animation only follows international animation trends, either. It's that the international market rewards productions that follow the same trends. Similar to how early American distributors of anime only licensed those shows that they thought would appeal to the American audience, the only reason you think Chinese animation only consists of derivative shows is because only those shows become popular internationally due to their internationally popular subject matter.

Despite similarities, there are significant differences between Chinese and Japanese culture, and such differences are reflected in more domestically successful shows like Fox Spirit Matchmaker and Qin's Moon, which use wuxia and xianxia tropes that you would never find in Japanese shows unless they're directly referencing Chinese history, such as in Twelve Kingdoms. I should hope most people would be smart enough to not say that Chinese wuxia or xianxia animation is a copy of Twelve Kingdoms.

None of this is to say that there aren't deliberate attempts at copying Japanese animation in Chinese and Korean animation. In art style, for example, both countries often look to Japan for inspiration. But when it comes to subject matter and the nuances of execution, there is enough originality in quality productions from China and Korea to distinguish them, and what similarities there maybe can often be explained through references to popular international trends, rather than specifically Japanese trends.

In short, the copy cat argument is getting old. You can't expect completely new and out there animation because, in an increasingly globalized world, where youth cultures all over the world are being influenced by the same global trends, that simply isn't possible.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eventine



Joined: 16 Jun 2017
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:13 pm Reply with quote
Intranetusa wrote:
BodaciousSpacePirate wrote:
drifty1 wrote:
So, why doesn't it have a page on ANN? Is there some trouble with "purists"?


"Purism" has nothing to do with it, Chinese animation is not - and makes no attempt to represent itself as - anime. Notice that there are no pages for Tower of God, Samurai Jack or Avatar: The Last Airbender, either, all of which have far more in common, trope-wise, with the average anime series than The King's Avatar.

...athough unlike The King's Avatar, all of those franchises at least have Wikipedia pages.


Except you have American cartoons (written and created by Americans) like RWBY that for some reason has a page here on animenewsnetwork. And RWBY uses a weird CGI style that doesn't even remotely resemble the vast majority anime in terms of style and animation. RWBY has far more in common with 1990s cartoonnetwork CGI shows like Reboot or Beast Wars than Japanese anime, yet it has a page here while KA doesn't.

anime#17739

It's really inconsistent why there isn't a page for King's Avatar but there is a page for RWBY.


I wouldn't sweat about it. Anime fan sites were originally created to service the growing interest in Japanese animation, not ALL animation. When you think about it that way, it makes sense for them to focus on Japanese animated titles. The only reason this is even a problem is because interest in Chinese animation, in the English speaking world, has yet to reach the stage where a similar fan community becomes necessary. When that time comes, it will be built, and the fans will come.

Just look at Reddit as an example. Five years ago it was almost impossible to sustain any kind of interest in discussing Chinese animation and posts on /r/Donghua were measured in months or years. Today /r/Donghua has daily posts, most of them having to do with King's Avatar. As interest increases in the English speaking world, fan sites will spring up. It's useless to try and force such interest through demanding more representation on Japanese animation sites.

Also, I think more needs to be said about the generation change in social networking preferences. Those of us who grew up in the 1990s and 2000s communicated through forums. But kids today prefer their new media formats like facebook and mobile chat. This is especially the case in East Asia. You'll likely find more discussions of Chinese animation there than you will in traditional forums which were created in the age of Japanese animation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lord Oink



Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 876
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:41 pm Reply with quote
Eventine wrote:

The irony in this criticism is that Japan didn't invent MMORGs, so in essence the "current trend of Japanese anime" is just Japanese animation studios copying American MMORPG culture - or more precisely, Japanese MMORPG culture which copied American MMORPG culture - and putting their own spin on it. What the author of King's Avatar said is right: MMORPGs are a global culture and just because the Japanese were the first to popularize animations about it doesn't make them the creators of the genre.


You may as well go the extra mile and say every printed medium is a rip off of the Sumerians because they invented writing, and anyone who uses writing after them are copycats. SAO and other shows have zero to do with American MMO culture. MMO culture in Japan is vastly different from the west. One of the biggest complaints I see about MMO anime is how un-MMOish it is coming from Americans. Of course it's not like WoW or whatever, WoW never released in Japan, and American MMO culture revolves around WoW or being a 'WoW killer'. Japanese MMO culture is vastly different. MMO based anime reflects that.

So no, Japan maybe didn't invent online gaming, but they pioneered and popularied the animation based on it, and to say otherwise is denial. Likewise, Japan may not have invented card games, but they sure pioneered and popularized the card game based anime. 4Kids and WoTC attempted to emulate them with stuff like Chaotic and Kaijudo but failed. Or those handful of sentai rip offs we got in the 90s like Beverly Hill Teenagers or Mystic Knights because Power Rangers was so big.

Companies aren't ignorant of trends. They see a bunch of stuff capitalizing on something and inevitably say "Me too!". The only difference here is at least KA is about 'pro gaming', which isnt really a thing in Japan, so at least they threw in that angle, but the influences of anime trends are still obvious, and nothing China has ever shyed away from
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group