Forum - View topicWhy is the ending of Gurren Lagann so sad?
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G-mofactor
 Posts: 797 Location: Atlantis to Interzone |
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I too second this. I had the same feeling and satisfaction when I saw both Gunbuster series and Gurren Lagann, so I continued to be pleased with Gainax through these years. |
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doctordoom85
 Posts: 2093 |
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I'm perfectly fine with Earn Your Happy Ending, but only when the characters go through enough suffering and/or challenge that such an ending is warranted (and even EYHE can be a bittersweet ending, just usually more emphasis on sweet than bitter). Save some deaths (one which occurred 7 years ago), the cast really didn't face THAT much in comparison to some of these examples, and it's not like the ending could have been that upbeat anyway, considering spoiler[Kittan, Lordgenome, and a bunch of the supporting team] were already dead before we got to the ending, so it really doesn't change the established mood that much. Plus, it ties into several themes and plot elements that had been set up, so the ending worked for me. In terms of endings, I've been perfectly satisfied with End of Evangelion (the only confusing part for me was the live-action sequence), FLCL (which is a bit bittersweet, especially for me since I had a friend like spoiler[Mamimi, minus the pyromaniac aspect of course, who I've lost contact with]), Gunbuster, and Gurren Lagann. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7985 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Positive, yes sort of, what I'd define as an ideal ending: no. It still left a ton of unanswered questions. I hate gaping plot holes in my anime, as well as random depression that serves no real purpose such as that at the end of Gurren Lagann. Both of which would constitute an unsatisfactory ending. I also hate "Haha, now go read the manga for the rest" endings, "Whoops! we ran out of budget so here's some text" endings, and reset button endings. I like things wrapped up neatly with a conclusion, preferably upbeat, though certain types of depressing endings are acceptable too. It's hard to go into detail on that subject though without slinging around lots of spoilers.
....and I haven't seen it, so I can neither confirm no deny that and my statement still stands. It's on my Netflix queue though, allbeit, near the bottom with most of the other sub only stuff. |
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ArsenicSteel
 Posts: 2370 |
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Gaping plot hole, no? That bit must just be part of the tirade not directly associated to GL. Well the end of GL was far from depressing. Life flourished. Just because every character you watched didn't get a 3 car garage, 2.3 children, and a picket fence does not make it depressing. GL went full circle. It started with simplistic goals, get to the surface. Then traveled the gamut to a cosmic level and ended with Simon's simple satisfaction of their accomplishments despite the trials. |
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damien007
 Posts: 180 |
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Okay I'm sorry but can you explain why you felt the ending of gurren lagann was randomly depressing and served no real purpose? The ending for guuren lagann had been built up to throughout the entire series, we'd grown to know and love many of the characters and there consequential sacrifices added a lot of weight to the ending. The final battle wouldn't have been anywhere near as dramatic if it wasn't for everything that was on the line and all the sacrifices that had been made to get them where they were. Just like in real life if you want to achieve something sacrifices must be made and it is because of these sacrifices that the achievements which had been fought for and won had meaning. Yesspoiler[ Nia probably didn't have to die] but the fact that she did showed that Simon had given up something he so dearly loved to obtain his and everyone's dream of freedom. It is because of this that the final scene with Simon looking up at the sky was so incredibly touching because all the things that had been lost in order to reach that point. Emotionally an achievement's worth is measured in how much is sacrificed to obtain it. Could you please also elaborate on what you define as satisfying. Because yes if no-one had died the ending would have "happy" but it would have lacked all the emotional meaning which constitutes what i would personally consider to be a "satisfying" ending. |
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Kruszer
Posts: 7985 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Because Gurren Lagann is a cheesy, exaggerated show, all about the indomitable human spirit (Spiral Power) and how it can spoiler[ conquer all and do absolutely anything even all kinds of ridiculously powerful things, but once they've won and get the girl back she up and dies. It makes all the stuff they did to save her seem so pointless, and the concept of death in general, in a series where anything is possible, is off-putting.]
Also being a romantic, I see absolutely zero value in spoiler[a romantic tragedy.] It's vile, and mean and pretty much the number one way to get me to dislike a work of fiction. It's also why I never liked Dominos. Why set something up if you're just going to knock it down?
The plotholes comment was about FLCL and the rest of that paragraph was me explaining several ways a series ending could annoy me only one of which related to GL. The one in the same sentence as when I mentioned it. Most if not all of those Gainax as a studio is guilty of doing though all of them are varying levels of series-ruining severity. Some of the infractions are more minor than others. 
Last edited by Kruszer on Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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Well didn't the kid Gimi also say something about Spiral Power being able to do that, yes? Then he gets promptly corrected by Simon that it would be an abuse of power, prove the anti-spirals right, and not what Nia would want. So yes the ending drives home the concept of responsibility and consequences. Romantic tragedies are plentiful and work well. I don't even need to bring up examples as anyone that has made it through 10th grade English should will know them. |
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Kruszer
Posts: 7985 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Yeah, Romeo and Juliet for one, I hated it. In fact it's the drivel that sparked my hatred of those kind of works. Unless there's some type of payoff I strongly dislike being emotionally lifted up and dropped. Now, if it was an up/down/up cycle or a down/up cycle then I'd have no issue with it.
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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Ridiculous. What the hell are you talking about. Unless you are emotionally illiterate then the entirety of GL falls under your up/down/up cycle. Anyone that has seen the series will be able to confirm that it is not a complete up ride. I am not even going to include specific events or spoilers. Maybe you were having pee breaks during some of the GL episodes, you missed a lot and it shows. You want happy for the sake of happy. Sorry to disappoint those kind of endings lack substance. Many shows want to offer an ending that has something to reflect on and be memorable. If the only ending that qualifies as a good ending for you is a happy one then learn your lesson and stay away from Gainax. Also watch all you anime in reverse starting from the final episode so that everyone who dies comes back to life and babies return to Heaven waiting to be born. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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I didn't mind the deaths of Kittan and the other Team Dai-Gurren members in the final episodes. But I, too, felt disappointed that they decided to have Nia die as well. I agree with some others that it made the whole reason for Simon's last actions sort of pointless (though the anti-spirals clearly had to be defeated). I thought the justification for it was pretty hokey and unnecessary: they did it because they wanted that kind of ending, not because the internal world required it.
Some have said that Simon was okay with what happened, but it seems to me that he wasn't. He retired from the world and took to wandering about. He turned the future over to the next generation at the lofty age of what, 18? 22? Something ridiculous like that. That might not be a sad life, but it definitely isn't one I would call a happy one. I like GL a lot, but I would've liked it even more if Simon and Nia had been able to ride off into the sunset together. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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What was Nia again? Oh that is right she was spoiler[created via anti-spiral power. So with the death of the entire planet of anti-spirals wouldn't the internal world rules mean their power and things created from that power fade away.] Internal world requirement met. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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I know what Nia ended up being, but she wasn't introduced that way. In fact, I never really understood how a spiral warrior like Lord Genome (I'm not making that into one name) could've created Nia and her had some sort of dormant anti-spiral aspect to her nature.
And weren't the anti-spirals originally sprials who had realized that spiral power could (would) destroy the Universe, had halted their own development, and then had fought and then surpressed (or outright exterminated) all significant spiral power in the Universe? If they had once been part of the Universe the way other spirals were, why would they suddenly be unable to exist in the Universe simply because their home planet had been destroyed? What I'm getting at here isn't that there were NO possibilities in which Nia had to go, but rather that there were other ways the creators could've gone that also would've been consistant and would've resulted in Nia not vanishing. That is what I meant by the creators wanting this sort of ending. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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spoiler[Yes they were spirals but they stopped using spiral power and developed into something else that they viewed as less dangerous. It is not that their planet got destroyed so the stopped existing. It is they were all on their home planet when it got destroyed so they all died.] The explanations for what happened is handled in the internal world as written by the author. Would haves and could haves are all possible but what the writer created the story, thus has full right to end it they way he saw fit. This is true for every written piece of work. All the things you are saying you don't get or were not seen in the internal world is actually explained in the anime.[/spoiler] |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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ArsenicSteel,
I said (paraphrasing) "they didn't have to do it this way". And you replied by saying the author has the right to end it the way he saw fit. I never meant to imply that the series creators didn't have the right to make whatever sort of ending they desired. Quite the contrary: I'm saying that it ended the way it did because they *chose* to end it that way, not because it *had* to end that way. They could have chosen differently and easily justified it, but didn't. As a romantic sort of guy, and out of a sense of fairness, I feel that Simon *ought* to have been able to live out his life with Nia. I'm one of those kinds of guys who feels a sense of satisfaction and "all is well with the Universe" when someone gets what I feel is their due. Essentially, I thought Simon got shafted by the writers, but I do understand *why* the writers chose to go the way they did. I'm not saying they're wrong, only that I found the ending to be less satisfying because of their choice. |
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ArsenicSteel
Posts: 2370 |
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Well I am not following that logic train. Paraphrasing, waxing poetic, rhetorically,...whatever. It is a work of fiction that is completely chosen by the writer. There is no ending to a fictional work that has to be any given way.
I replied to your initial post about not finding the internal explanation about Nia and Anti-spirals. I am not able to explain the fact that writers have creative control over their stories from beginning to end. Or for whatever reason in the case of GL Kazuki Nakashima thought this ending would be better than an ending with complete happiness. This ending isn't even that sad. |
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